Legislature(1997 - 1998)

04/06/1998 03:40 PM Senate RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                    HB 373 - FOREST RESOURCES                                  
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD announced HB 373 to be up for consideration.                  
                                                                               
MS. PAT SPRINGER, Staff to Speaker Phillips, sponsor, read Speaker             
Phillips' sponsor statement.  It said this bill would greatly                  
enhance protection of Alaska's salmon resources and water quality.             
This legislation improves present Forest Practices Act safeguards              
and represents a commitment from the industry, environmental                   
concerns and government to periodically reevaluate the Forest                  
Practices Act.  The Board of Forestry has found that the Act is                
working well in protecting salmon habitat and water quality, but               
concluded that some areas needed further review.  They established             
a Science and Technical Committee that recommended opportunities to            
strengthen habitat and wildlife protection.  A Stakeholder                     
Committee then convened to incorporate the findings into                       
recommendations for the Board of Forestry which endorsed a series              
of amendments to the Forest Practices Act.  These amendments have              
broad consensus support from all the participants.                             
                                                                               
MR. JEFF JAHNKE, State Forester, said he is also the presiding                 
officer for the Board of Forestry.  Today he is testifying on                  
behalf of both in support of HB 373.  He emphasized the process and            
resulting recommendations were based on the best available                     
scientific recommendations and that the process was open                       
throughout.  The results were supported by a wide range of                     
interests - the Board of Forestry with commercial fishing, forest              
industries, native corporations, environmental corporations,                   
mining, fish and wildlife biologists and recreationists.  He said              
this legislation was achieved through consensus over a period of               
two years and any substantive changes would make the consensus                 
difficult to sustain.  This is a good bill providing additional                
protection for key water bodies in coastal Alaska and is workable              
for the timber industry.  He said that Ms. Marty Welbourn was the              
co-chairman of the Science and Technical Committee and has thorough            
knowledge of the legislation.                                                  
                                                                               
MS. MARTY WELBOURN, Division of Forestry, explained that this is               
not a wholesale revision of the Forest Practices Act, but affects              
only the part of the Act that addresses stream classification and              
riparian management on private lands in Region One - the coastal               
forest in Southeast Alaska through Prince William Sound, the                   
eastern part of the Kenai Peninsula, and Kodiak.  It includes                  
Mental Health Trust lands within that area, as well.                           
                                                                               
Under the existing Forest Practices Act, about 20 percent of the               
streams in the area, including anadromous streams are unclassified             
and have no designated riparian areas.  Furthermore, there are                 
requirements to maintain some trees along stream banks of                      
unclassified streams.  Tree cover along streams provides woody                 
debris for fish habitat and stabilizes stream banks to help control            
erosion and provides nutrients to the stream.  When the Science and            
Technical Committee reviewed the Act, they found many issues where             
they didn't recommend changes.  Two significant recommendations                
from the Committee require legislative change.  They found all                 
anadromous streams and their tributaries should be classified and              
have appropriate riparian protection.  Secondly, they found that               
Type B streams, anadromous streams that have rock banks and                    
relatively steep gradients, need more woody debris than they are               
currently getting.  Woody debris is needed for fish habitat within             
Type B streams and other sorts of debris for Type A channels which             
can wash down from Type B streams.  Woody debris is also needed for            
control of sedimentation.  HB 373 contains consensus                           
recommendations from the Board of Forestry that respond to the                 
Science and Technical Committee's  provision findings.                         
                                                                               
TAPE 98-26, SIDE A                                                             
                                                                               
The Act would also classify all tributaries to anadromous streams              
as Type B or D based on the steepness of the stream and stability              
standards would apply on those streams, as well.                               
                                                                               
She explained under the current Act, only Type A streams,                      
anadromous streams with a relatively low gradient, have a buffer.              
One of the things the bill does is add requirements that applies               
stability standards out to 100 feet from the stream or to the slope            
break on Type A streams, but it does not change the existing                   
buffers on those Type A streams.  On Type B streams, it would add              
a buffer that would go out to 66 ft. or to the slope break which               
ever is smaller.  Many Type B streams are inside channels, so the              
buffers in many cases would be narrower than 66 ft.  On the                    
tributaries to anadromous streams, both stability standards would              
apply.  On Type C streams there would be 100 ft. and on Type B                 
streams about 50 ft. unless the break comes first.  For larger                 
tributaries to anadromous streams the bill strengthens the timber              
retention standards.  It would require the operator to retain low              
value timber within at least 25 ft. and that could be wider                    
depending on the characteristics of the stream.  These changes help            
insure that the goal for the Forest Practices Act are met - to                 
provide adequate protection of fish habitat and water quality and              
insure that it continues to satisfy the requirements for nonpoint              
source pollution under the federal Clean Water Act and the Coastal             
Zone Management Act.                                                           
                                                                               
SENATOR TAYLOR commented that he thought the Forest Practices Act              
was a cookie cutter approach to forest management and that this                
bill's four-part breakdown of streams based upon gradient and bank             
structure is probably a more refined cookie cutter, but it's still             
just a cookie cutter.  He thought it might get permits approved                
more quickly to be able to harvest with a greater level of                     
stability than what they have had in the past.  He supported that              
concept, although it was still just a cookie cutter approach.                  
                                                                               
Number 133                                                                     
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD noted that the distances were not consistent in               
the original Forest Practices Act.  He asked if there was any place            
that private forest land can include fairly small parcels with                 
another primary purpose to exclude the right of a property owner on            
their five or ten acre parcel to clear their stream front.                     
                                                                               
MR. JAHNKE said he thought that was covered.                                   
                                                                               
MS. WELBOURN answered that first of all, land owners can convert               
their land to another use.  They just need to notify them of a land            
use conversion.  Small land owners, the size varying by region, are            
exempted from notification under the Act.                                      
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked how small is small.                                     
                                                                               
MS. WELBOURN answered in Southeast it's 10 acres and in                        
Southcentral, it's 40 acres.  Above those thresholds, you have to              
notify DNR if you are clearing the land and converting it to                   
another use.  Then the Forest Practices Act does not apply.  If the            
conversion is not under way in a five year period, you are expected            
to reforest.                                                                   
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said he was concerned about making it impossible              
for someone to develop another use because they have forest land.              
                                                                               
SENATOR TORGERSON asked if the slope stability standards are in                
existence now.                                                                 
                                                                               
MR. JAHNKE answered yes, and they are established by the rule                  
making process, but the Board of Forestry is the body that reviews             
them.                                                                          
                                                                               
SENATOR TORGERSON asked if they had to worry about anything more               
than 100 ft.                                                                   
                                                                               
MR. JAHNKE said he thought that was correct for private lands.                 
                                                                               
SENATOR TORGERSON asked where the definition of break of slope was             
defined.                                                                       
                                                                               
MR. JAHNKE said it is defined in statute at the point where the                
stream bank changes to a lower area.  In most cases, they believe              
the point of the break in the slope is easily identifiable.                    
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked him if the statute specified the first break            
in the slope.                                                                  
                                                                               
MR. JAHNKE didn't have an answer.                                              
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said he liked the fact that the other area of                 
interpretation was high value/low value and it's the land owner                
that decides.                                                                  
                                                                               
MR. JAHNKE said that is how they interpret that, also.                         
                                                                               
Number 240                                                                     
                                                                               
SENATOR LEMAN said for the Type C and D water bodies there is a                
reference to a width measurement if the channel is incised.  He                
asked if that was a term that is well recognized or does it need to            
be further defined by the angle of the incision or anything having             
to do with the structure of the stream bank.                                   
                                                                               
MR. JAHNKE said the distinction between incised and gradient is one            
that has existed for a while and he didn't think there had been a              
problem with that in the past.                                                 
                                                                               
Number 256                                                                     
                                                                               
MS. WELBOURN said it hasn't been a problem and has been worked out             
in the field.                                                                  
                                                                               
SENATOR LINCOLN said she didn't understand the fiscal note.  DNR               
said based on distribution, there's going to be an estimated 21                
percent increase in the number of buffer stream miles which would              
require additional staff time for office review of notification and            
field review of requests and violations.  Training will be needed              
for land owners and operators and staff, etc. and it's all free.               
She asked how that can be.                                                     
                                                                               
MR. RICK HARRIS, Sealaska, said HB 373 was put together in a                   
process of consensus building and was a continuation of a process              
that began in 1988.  They have been able to work with various                  
interest groups and, where good science comes along and indicates              
there is a need to make a modification to the Forest Practices Act             
or to the regulations, they have come together to do that.  This               
bill has identified some deficiencies in the Act and regulations.              
                                                                               
Since 1982, they have been monitoring the Forest Practices Act.                
Most of that money has been provided by the timber industry and the            
people who are interested in seeing the Forest Practices Act work,             
although they have received grants from EPA to do monitoring.  As              
a result of the monitoring, they can say that the Act is working to            
protect fish habitat and water quality.  The purpose of modifying              
the Act and regulations is to provide that all the streams are                 
classified.                                                                    
                                                                               
                                                                               
MR. HARRIS said this is not a cookie cutter approach.  It                      
establishes the standard, but it allows people in the field -                  
competent trained biologists and resources trained people, - to go             
out and make adjustments in the field that provide better                      
protections for the private timber owner or to modify the practices            
in site specific areas, if it appears that water quality standards             
are not being met.  The bill provides more flexibility than Senator            
Taylor gives it credit for.                                                    
                                                                               
The other part of the bill that's useful is providing protection in            
the upstream reaches.  Up until this time, there was no mandatory              
retention of timber, but through research they have found that some            
timber retention is important and for that reason they are                     
agreeable to retain some timber along those streams to provide                 
enhanced protection for the stream.                                            
                                                                               
SENATOR TORGERSON asked if they should amend this to say the first             
break in the slope.                                                            
                                                                               
MR. HARRIS said they had been using this standard since 1990 and               
there hasn't been a problem with interpretation.  It's been                    
described as the first break you encounter as you come up over the             
slope.                                                                         
                                                                               
Number 340                                                                     
                                                                               
SENATOR LEMAN asked if the definition of incised had ever been a               
problem.                                                                       
                                                                               
MR. HARRIS answered there are some minor adjustments they are                  
suggesting, but incised and channels contained by geomorphology are            
terms that are understood when you are out in the field.                       
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD commented that in Southeast, the thing that shows             
the most and lasts the longest from timber cuts is a straight line.            
If you can avoid straight lines, it will look fine.                            
                                                                               
MR. JAHNKE said straight lines generally occur on property                     
boundaries.                                                                    
                                                                               
Number 376                                                                     
                                                                               
MR. JACK PHELPS, Executive Director, Alaska Forest Association,                
supported HB 373 as written and said he had sent a letter to that              
effect.  Their involvement has been thorough in this process and               
this is good legislation encouraging stability in terms of how the             
industry is dealt with by regulatory agencies and it is very                   
science based.  He also talked to Dick Coose with Concerned                    
Alaskans For  Resources and Environment, who wanted him to say they            
support this bill, also.                                                       
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD noted that the fiscal note enumerated all the                 
costs and then put zeros and he wanted that clarified.  SENATOR                
LINCOLN agreed.                                                                
                                                                               
MR. JAHNKE said they had struggled over the fiscal impacts of this             
bill and much of it they can do in the course of their normal                  
inspections.  It has been tough to identify what the additional 20             
percent of Type B would mean.  He thought the fiscal note said                 
that.  He said they are out in the field, anyhow, on the                       
inspections.  The training was the biggest issue and they are                  
already conducting training session that they were going to work it            
into.                                                                          
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said he has a problem with the zero fiscal note               
for the additional three months for two existing seasonal Forester             
II positions, because the Department will come back next year and              
say they notified the legislature of the cost and they approved it.            
                                                                               
MR. JAHNKE attempted to clarify that this is an adjustment to the              
Forest Practices Act and the people are in the field anyway and                
it's difficult to separate the impacts of this particular                      
legislation.  It's not a wholesale change.                                     
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if he wrote the fiscal note.                            
                                                                               
MR. JAHNKE answered yes, he wrote some of it.                                  
                                                                               
SENATOR LINCOLN said she thought ADF&G would be involved in this               
process and she didn't see any fiscal note from them either.                   
                                                                               
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said he didn't have a problem with moving the bill            
out, but wanted a fiscal note that justified in numbers what it                
says with the words.                                                           
                                                                               
Number 454                                                                     
                                                                               
SENATOR LINCOLN said they had passed other legislation out of this             
committee that had a zero fiscal note and if the Department thought            
they could do it with a zero fiscal note, they could hold their                
feet to the fire.                                                              
                                                                               
SENATOR LEMAN moved the technical amendment to replace "whichever              
area is smaller" with "whichever distance is less" and where it                
says "whichever area is greater" replace with "whichever distance              
is greater."  There were no objections and it was so ordered.                  
                                                                               
SENATOR LEMAN moved to pass SCS CSHB 373(RES) with individual                  
recommendations and an accurate fiscal note.  There were no                    
objections and it was so ordered.                                              

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